This topic contains 7 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by 3 months, 3 weeks ago.
November 7, 2013 at 4:30 pm #8651
If you like your personnel beliefs and liberties you can keep them. I know I am going to stir up some controversy here, especially from those on the extreme right. I have no problem with them having their personnel beliefs or expressing them, it is just the pushing them on others I have the problem with, or more so the harm they do to the Republican party by pushing them.What was this moron thinking, another republican shooting himself in the foot? He may have lost for others reasons as well and Many Americans may not like the Government meddling in their health care business, but they sure as heck do not want the Government meddling in their bedroom even more. The affordable health care act is going to be a big issue in the 2014 elections, and could very well be a deciding factor, if the far Right will leave peoples personnel faith, sexual behavior, and preference out of it if. And concentrate on issues relevant to the business of the Government and it’s role in the Personnel lives of Americans as out lined by the Constitution. Health Care is a personnel issue not covered by the Constitution, but neither is sexual behavior, or preference, based on a religious belief or faith. The health care issue, along with the Benghazi, the IRS as well as other issues may draw some just left or in the middle, to the right on the issues. As long as the Republicans do not bring in these even more personnel and inflammatory personnel issues.November 7, 2013 at 5:30 pm #8655
if the far Right will leave peoples personnel faith, sexual behavior, and preference out of it if.<span style=”mso-spacerun: yes;”> </span>And concentrate on issues relevant to the business of the Government and it’s role in the Personnel lives of Americans as out lined by the Constitution.
CK, you seem to be insinuating that liberals don’t act in the same manner… Look at what the ACLU has done over the years as they attack religion in this nation… Look at what the LGBT movement has done over the years… Are these debates a result solely of the actions of Republicans???
You seem to be saying that conservatives should just “go lay by their dish” on these issues, and just let the liberals have their way!!!November 7, 2013 at 6:43 pm #8658
LD there in lies part of the problem, it may seem to You and Others I am suggesting the Liberals are not doing the same thing, I Am Not. I am suggesting the Republicans concentrate on Constitution issues and other issues rather than their own personnel issues of a more Religious Nature. How someone behaves sexually in their bed room is absolutely none of their damm business, leave it along. There are Liberal groups out there who do have their agenda and they can convince many they have their best interest in mind, that is just the way it is. But their are others who can not and are not so easily convinced, but belief they can deal with them easier than the Religious Zealots of the right. Our Country grew to the size and strength it is, after the Natives where removed. Greed for their land was the goal of getting rid of them. Or just plain hate for what they did as allies to the British. But Religion and the belief the Natives were Godless savages was how Those for what ever their reasons, justified the Indians removal. That same blind Religious Zealousness that cleared the way for the expansion and growth of The United States, could be same religious zealousness that allows the savages of today to destroy it. How ever the founders felt about Religion, and the freedom of it, or how we think they may have felt about it, they knew how to use it to their advantage. And alienating Millions as these continuing debates over sexual preferences based in and on Religious beliefs is not a way of gaining an advantage over the BS of the other side. Let them shoot them selves in the foot, but how about we stop shooting our selves in the foot.November 8, 2013 at 9:21 pm #8699
I do think the liberals (or left) have been “pushing” their personal beliefs in this nation for some time. I thinks the Republicans (the right) were really trying to keep things status quo for some time, not “pushing” their beliefs on others as is popular to say. Most people on the right want things the way they used to be – traditional America. It’s a matter of perspective. Someone on the right will look at same sex marriage as being “pushed” on them. If traditional marriage was the only recognized marriage, how can the right be “pushing” their beliefs by trying to keep it that way. In the case of same-sex marriage, it is the new kid on the block trying to push its way into the American culture. The real “argument” is what the American culture was – Christian values or secular “values” (for lack of a better word). If traditional values are set aside for a liberal mentality (live and let live, to each his own, etc.), be prepared for the vacuum to be filled with amoral (not evil) values. You know the saying, “be careful for what you ask for.”November 9, 2013 at 5:03 pm #8731
Hogwild your comments are most welcome. LD knows many of my thoughts on the issue, I am not sure if his post was intended to stir some interest in the topic, as this site its self has become dull after the big change. I do not believe he believes I would imply, or suggest the Conservatives should just go lay by their dish, that could not be further from the truth. However I do believe Reason on the subject should prevail, and reason dictates some compromises should be reached by both sides. The Founders did not agree about the Religious issues of the time, they did not agree with the established Religion of the time, they did however reach a Compromise.
LD I started another of Jon Meacham’s books; “American Gospel” God, The Founding Fathers And The Making Of A nation. As I have said on the subject of Religion I have read many of the letters the Founders wrote not just to each other but to others of their time as well. Meacham puts them into a context, more than just reading the random letters. Meacham confirms many of the ideas consensus I have reached from reading at random the letters of the Founders.
I have never believed the Founders, as Meacham puts it were the deeply Religious, pious, apostles of God, the Gospel and Religion as our romanticized history makes them out to be. They were men with their own faults, and they knew they had them. They were not that far removed from the faults and had good knowledge of the atrocities, committed in the name of God by many of the established religions of the time, including the Puritans with their forced compliance and conformity to and of their interpretation of their Religion.
The Founders where Religious in their own way, and had no problem with Religion its self, but did have problems the interpretations of, the corruption of it by mans own interpretations of it. They feared organized Religion with its strict conformity to mans interpretations of it. They saw the good morals of and in all Religions, and recognized all, be it Buddhism, Hindu, Muslim, Jew or Christian. Each Founder having their own problems with one or the other, but they came to a compromise that all should be equal, one having no favor over the other, in the Public or Government arena. They had the idea there was a type of public Religion, a combination of the morals of all Religions, and another type, a divine Right to a Personnel/Private Religion and a divine right to practice and exercise that Personnel Religion without the fear of reprisal from the Government or Others. Weather that was having no Religion at all or the most strict and confirmative of them all, that was a divine right of each person. But that divine right only applies as long as it did/ does not interfere, inhabit or prohibit the divine rights of others. The creator gives us the right to believe in him or not, to worship him each in our own way and in the end we each will answer to him for our own choices, and no one else’s. These are divine rights of providence that cannot be given nor taken away by any Government, there fore cannot be dictated in any way by any Government. They the Founders came to a compromise that no one Religion with its beliefs and moral standards should or could be allowed hold sway in the Public arena of the Government. They believed there where moral standards whose virtues contributed to a civil society, and more personnel moral standards which if not actually followed by all did no real harm to the society as a whole. And those more personnel moral standards could not be forced on others, by any law or decree of or by the Government.November 10, 2013 at 3:06 am #8744
Having said all that, Such Founders Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Adams, believed the only way to settle an issue or problem was to have civil conversation about it. Their own incivilities at time aside. They believed those civil conversations; debates could, would and did lead to reasonable compromises on any issue.They believed on or in any debate or issue the preservation of the Union was paramount. So compromises had to be made on issues that threatened the Union.
Slavery aside as any debate there at the time threatened the Formation of our Union. Many where salve owners, and wrestled privately with that issue, each wrote and confided with certain friends about it privately. How could they create a nation as outlined in the Declaration of Independence saying all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, and justify Slavery at the same time. They had to come to terms with it or risk the Union altogether, those who held salves continued to do so, even though they felt in their hearts it was wrong. But it was a way of life; They felt the importance of the Union was enough that issue had to be put aside for a later time. A time when more people where more enlightened as to believe it may actually be wrong. It may at a later date cause a civil war that could or would divide the Country, but at a time when there where not so many outside enemies and the problem could be resolved the Union preserved and pulled back together. Compromise to preserve the Union at the time. We know how all that turned out, it is History and we still stand Proud and strong.
But in answer to the query if I believe the Conservatives should lay by their dish while the Liberals do what they wish, the answer is “NO”. I/We have an unalienable to speak our piece. But it should be in civil tones for as long as we can stand the uncivil tones of the opposing side. But even then our tone should not become so vulgar and/or offensive as to provoke the other into physical violence. Facts and truth can provoke a violent response which then can justifiably physically defended against, but only if that is the only provocation.
Many of you remember the debate on here where it was vehemently denied the any Republican/Conservative had proposed any Law or Constitutional Amendment to prohibit Homosexual marriage, or Laws against Homosexuality in General. A heated debate ensued, in opposition of my statement and believe that our creator did not, has not given us the right to judge others sins, that is between him and them and we will not be judge for their sins. I do not believe there should be any laws made that prohibit any behavior that in actuality harms no one, and based entirely on a Religious belief. And those on the far right can not get past that argument long enough for me to say I do not believe there should be any Laws pasted that promote or justify a behavior that is considered wrong by almost every Religion known to man, and considered unnatural by many nonreligious peoples as well, and has been considered taboo in most cultures and societies around the world. They have no right to force us to conform to or accept a belief that it is as we believe is not right, but we have no God given right to legally prohibit such behavior. Take the issue out of the Religious arena. Put it where it belongs, the rest of the world does not condone Homosexuality and has not and does not recognize it as a legitimate reason for marriage, you made your choice live with it. No laws for or against.November 10, 2013 at 8:45 am #8751
I’m not going to get into the debate between the excesses of either party; however, I do believe that the GOP has allowed the ultra right wing religious groups to become way to influential in forming the planks of the Republican platform. I also recognize the fact that the Democrats have actually become the party of extreme liberalism. Unfortunately by all indications, the liberal agenda appeals to a certain class of voters who seem to be in the majority when it comes to voting time(at least they vote more often than the conservatives); or either Soros’ machines kick out the conservative votes and are designed to only count the liberal ones!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NRA LM, NAHC LM, Buckmasters LM, Second Amendment Foundation, NAGR, GOA, Palmetto Gun Rights, DU, NWTF, QDMA, Everyday Hunter, My Fellow Hunter, American Sportsmen's Alliance, Deer and Deer Hunting, Hunt Talk, and proud SC redneck Rebel for life.November 10, 2013 at 3:26 pm #8780
Funny to is in one district in florida they had a 141 % turn out and it was ignored .And in Philly they had 59 districts that had NOT ONE REPUBLICAN VOTE .And never investigated .
Well here I am .
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